Posts by The Rebel

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Well we differ on this subject Simon but before I end my drivel, let me say I admire you for helping so many out of the W.T hell. I hope we can agree on that:-) Thanks for allowing my contribution over the months.

Mike.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

To answer your question " Caedes" my issue of freedom of speech is on authorship. To clarify who wrote the bible, God or man? If Anne Frank wrote the " diary of Anne Frank" she should be credited as author not co-author. If Otto Frank is credited as a co-author who is giving power to nazi sympathisers?

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Simon thank you for the post. Yes you are correct I raised this post to challenge my thinking on free speech. The only thing you are incorrect with is I was sure this O.P would not be closed down. To clarify before I started my O.P I researched the forum history and noted many years ago a similar O.P was started, with most posters agreeing the diary was a fraud. However that O.P did not create a discussion from those that belived the diary genuine. I genuinely believe this forum is better than that, that an O.P should create debates and challenge our thinking. That was my intention,

Now for my conclusion to the O.P.

In my honest opinion:-

A) I believe if the diary of Anne Frank is to be " credited" with Otto Frank as co-author, it will in the future ( even today) correctly raise questions about the authenticity of the diary.

B) If the Anne Frank foundation is to be allowed that free-speech and to say Otto Frank is co-author then it means we should follow the argument through and that means they are saying we have been lied to for years and that the book was in-fact co-written by Otto Frank.

C) If we don't agree that " Otto Frank" is co-author, then one of the most important books ever written,should have voices to challenge this because:-

D) If such ( silent) free-speech allowes another persons diary, thoughts, views and opinions be credited to another author, I say so much for free-speech. Do you agree?

Now back to my O.P, my boy of 10 is being taught at school about the Anne Frank diary, to me this means he is being taught about History, and either the words of Anne Frank inspired history, inspired millions or it was bullshit. If it was bullshit I don't think it should be taught, if it was true then Anne should be credited with the work.

This is why I make an issue of the book authorship.

The Rebel.

p.s apologies in advance for the poor spelling:-(

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Well LisaRose, at least I won't be canned. I remmber that as a kid in the 80s, I was in the head masters room bent over backwards and ouch. And then I spent the rest of the day worrying my brother would tell my mum and dad. Strangely I have forgotten why I got canned.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

on the contrary Simon, I believe Otto Frank was a victim, and that the loss of his family does merit sympathy, I am also very sorry his daughters and wife perished. They along with the millions of others who also died in that war, were all individuals, and each of those life's had a story.

I had the privalige of having met Marion Pretzel, when he was in Harpendon. Marion wrote " Diary of a young forger" he was a holocaust survivor and the book he wrote, was very important to me as I grew up as a child. He did not object when I challenged him on his escape from the Janowska concentration camp. I challenged him because the only living witness Simon Wiesenthal wrote in the introduction of the hard back cover " I must confess that in spite of my good memory, I simply can't remmber that short episode of how I helped Marion Pretzel, escape from the " Ostbahn-Ausbesse"

Marion didn't take offense with the question, why should he?

I was also privaliged to associate with concentration camp survivors, when I worked at Moss Bross in Coventry Garden. I was a college kid and they worked in the tailors dept. On many occasions I got my inside leg measurements wrong, and had to rush to the top floor tailors dept. The tailors were all holocaust survivors, and I still remember my ignorant question of why they had numbers on the arm. ( I was only 18/19) We became friends and I shared cups of coffee with them.

The fact is Otto Frank has now been acknowledged as co-author of the book. Therefore Anne Frank is now co-author. So I don't believe the Anne Frank book was misrepresented by the "slightest degree" when she was attributed as the soul author. It became one of the greatest selling books in history because it was co-written by Otto Frank.

This is why the Authors credit should be acknowledged. If it's been misrepresented only to the slightest degree " Anne Frank" should be credited as the writer. However if it has been misrepresented to a greater degree then quite rightly " Otto Frank" should be credited with his contribution to the writting of the story.

Would any one disagree with that?

I hope not as I think my statement is both fair and balanced and certainly I believe would meet with the approval of Marion Pretzel, and my consentration camp survivors whom I befriended at Moss Bross.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Giordano, thank you very much for taking so many hours to research my questions.

May I also suggest the legal experts consulted by the Anne Frank foundation are being very liberal with the statement " We have concluded that the editing, merging and trimming of entries by Anne's father " created a new work" worthy of its copyright." He merged them he, cut them and he changed them, so he created a "new book"

I would answer the above:-

A) A diary is a very personal possession, it can never be created in to a new book with co-authorship by a third party.

B) Legally unless a book has been changed very dramatically it can't be co-authored, otherwise all editors that merge and trim an authors words can be credited with creating a new book.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Giordano have you read the diary?

In the first pages and throughout the diary we are informed of the need to remain silent, particularly during the day as employees in the factory downstairs were not to be trusted, and were not in on the secret of those in hiding. So noice clearly did matter. And yet everyday at 1130 they vacuumed with a 1940s vacuuming cleaner. Well even Otto Frank when challenged on this fact had to admit it was absurd.

Now how about the building they were hiding in being sold,and a surveyor coming round to value the property. and yet neither the new purchaser not the surveyor were interested in looking in the " secret annex"which was on the plans. This is something that should be challenged, because it makes for suspense in a story, but it is also very odd the surveyor and purchaser of the building were not interested in seeing the secret annex.

My comments are based on my having read the book.

Why do you think to mention Otto Frank's contribution to the book, is to discredit the holocaust? Particularly as " Otto Frank" in 2016 has been credited with co-authorship by the publishers and " The Anne Frank foundation". And Having read The Death Brigade, by Leon Wells, I know the holocaust was real. Furthermore I have known holocaust survivors, and I would have no problem voicing my opinion about the diary with them, were they today in good health and alive.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Well said Cofty.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Cofty please clarify my errors about the diary. I also disdain my comments being associated with David Irving.

Cofty, Rather than ban speech we disagree with, we should educate ourselves. Let me therefore publically ask you, would you and your family have hidden in " the secret annex" whilst a noisy 1940s vacuume cleaner was being used each morning, and whilst wood was being chopped with an axe, and smoke coming from the chimney of your hiding place? I certainly wouldn't, and all this in the first few pages of a diary, that began stating the need to remain silent.

I think many people can comment on the " Diary" but the evidence should be based on having read it. Have you read the " diary" Cofty? That is where the evidence is not Davd Irwing.

The Rebel.

43

Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel in

attending my boys parents evening it was mentiond they were to study the " diary of anne frank".

( he is 10 years old) i pointed out to the teacher that having read the book, in my option the book was not written entirely by anne frank, and i would educate my boy on why i believe this to be so.. in my mind this was a totally reasonable responce by me, but it has resulted in the head-master of the school wanting to meet with me.

i think it wrong that an educational system will i suspect meet with me and presumably suggest my options on the " anne frank diary" constitute hate speech, as nothing could be further from the truth.. freedom of speech is never absolute, but at what point do you think it reasonable and justified?

The Rebel

Giordano thanks for your post.

In my opinion we can do a brief search on the Internet about the diary and come up with evidence either way. I think the challenge is to read the book with critical thinking skills and come to our own conclusion. I say this because none of your points in defense of the diary would I challenge, but I do challenge the diary based on Annes comments, about the need to be so silent, that they couldn't even cough at night, and yet they have constant noisy quarrels, use daily a noisy vacuuming cleaner, chop wood and have smoke come out the chimney at night. This and many other points make me using my independent thinking question how much of the diary was written by Anne Frank.

Anyway under copywriter law " The Diary of Anne Frank" should have became under the public domain in January 2016. Oh I say should, it's now considered that Otto Frank is an editor. Well that makes a bizarre argument, surely editing a book,especially a personal diary, shouldn't effect the authorship. Not unless it was co-written in my opinion.

The Rebel.

p.s Simon I apologise for my atrousious spelling and thanks for bringing the matter to my attention.